Bets, anyone?
How long is Jeanne going to last in a mandatory class on morals and ethics, where the premise is that both of the above are relative to the environment of the individual?
Jeanne: I don't think it's right to say that certain brain-damaged people don't understand anything.
Teacher: I meant the really severely damaged ones.
Jeanne: You can say that they can't process input, or communicate, but you have no idea what they understand or don't understand.
Teacher: Well, of course, you treat them as if they were normal people. That's where the ethics part comes in.
Jeanne: I don't think it's right to say that certain brain-damaged people don't understand anything.
Teacher: I meant the really severely damaged ones.
Jeanne: You can say that they can't process input, or communicate, but you have no idea what they understand or don't understand.
Teacher: Well, of course, you treat them as if they were normal people. That's where the ethics part comes in.
posted by Jeanne at 21:57
13 Comments:
Oh, to be a fly on that wall.
Does your prof mean that environment determines morals & ethics, or that it influences them?
Determines, unfortunately. And I sure do wish it was a professor. I'm back in highschool, or rather vocational school, through no choice of my own. I think it will be fun to study, but I have most of a B.A. in my distant past, and I haven't really been twiddling my intellectual thumbs in the meantime, either.
I have no problem with discussing morals and ethics theoretically, but we're supposed to be learning how to behave morally and ethically correct. My experience from an earlier ethics class for interpreters has taught me that as soon as I suggest that there might be such a thing as Right and Wrong, and that I'm not about to do anything in any situation that I believe is Wrong, I'm accused of being an intellectual midget who hasn't seen beyond the confines of her own moral upbringing. Oh well. This teacher seems to mean well, so I won't give up yet. The ironic part is that in order to keep my job, I have to submit to this "education", and it will probably have the effect of marking me as inappropriate so I'll lose my job anyway, or at least not be able to get another one.
Roll with the punches is my motto these days. And try not to be bitter.
What's the difference? If a situation "influences" how you act in such a way that you do what you otherwise would have deemed unethical then the situation has "determined" your idea of ethics. Does the idea of conscience or guilt ever come up?
This is just not fair. You've all been having fun on my blog, and I haven't had access to internet since yesterday morning. It just died. I almost thought I'd killed it, as it happened at the exact moment I posted my last comment.
I don't understand what you mean, Mr. B. You'll have to be more explicit. I do think it makes a difference if it's determined or influenced. Influenced allows room for the existence of Right and Wrong, but takes our weakness as objective beings into consideration. Determines means that Right and Wrong only exist as practicle tools for coexistence.
Steve,
I'll try to open your comments, but last time I tried it didn't work.
I've been tantalized by coincidence a while now.
Tell your professor that he obviously can't KNOW these things because by his own arguement he is nothing more than a victim of his environment. His environment could have impaired his judgement so that his is unawares of his own cognitive gaps.
fdf,
A strong argument, but one that might endanger my credibility. Although it could be so that genetic drifts rule until one becomes aware of an alternative. Something certainly rules.
What a lovely orangy golden glow there is about the blog this morning.
Steve,
I read the discussion, or a great deal of it. Me no like relativism.
I am by no means an absolutist either. But I see what I see, and if I had any more energy than I do today, I would debate it, too. Perhaps another day, when the sun is shining.
It's not a question of listing up morals, it's a question of following Good. The Navajos call it horos, or something like that, which means harmony. You seem to function according to that principle yourself:)
One reason I know it's all crap is that my "moralality" doesn't correspond to any group I've been exposed to. I didn't meet anyone who thought like me until I was a bit over twenty. And all my morality causes me far too much trouble to be an advantage for anybody.
God am I dismal today. I think I'll shut up:)
That last part was bull. It's only problematic when it is in opposition to the masses.
Actually, I understand the premise of moral relativism, and I can even see the application. After all, there are millions of examples of behavior being acceptable in one culture and not another.
However, it does seem as if he chose an odd argument to demonstrate his point, particularly given the uncertainty about what brain-damaged people can or cannot understand.
Lastly, it does seem as if you can't argue for moral relativism and then demean someone for having morals that differ from theirs. It appears that the people accusing you of being an "intellectual midget" are engaging in just the type of judgmental behavior that they rail against.
That reminds me (albeit only vaguely) of the last suggestion. Effective, but disarming.
Joe,
They were two seperate problems, actually, which I didn't make clear. I just intended for the second one to illustrate the difficulty I have communicating with someone who thinks they have to act ethically rather than realize something.
jeanne,
how is the class going?
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